Comments on: Point/Counterpoint: Doc Gooden http://www.blueandorange.net/?p=682 Hoping for a Miracle since 2005 Mon, 30 Jan 2012 03:54:03 -0700 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.6 hourly 1 By: Chris Wilcox http://www.blueandorange.net/?p=682&cpage=1#comment-485706 Chris Wilcox Thu, 23 Apr 2009 02:42:30 +0000 http://www.blueandorange.net/?p=682#comment-485706 I guess I just look at Dwight Gooden as a man who had a problem that unfortunately, brought great pain to his life. It's unfortunate, but it's beyond my control; everything that these guys do is beyond my control, obviously. There was a weakness inside of him that kept him from being able to live a sober life, and I find that more unfortunate than anything. Should we hold it against Davey Johnson and Mel Stottlemyre for overusing him? Should we fail to "forgive" them for blowing out his arm, which prevented the Mets from benefiting from his talents for a longer period of time? They made mistakes handling Doc, much as Doc made his own problems, and ultimately, the end result was a career that never quite reached its promise, but I don't think that erases the great things he did, either, and as we grow older, I just don't see the need to hold onto negativity. It seems counterproductive to me. I've known people who suffer from addictions. I've been close to them. It really is a disease. I don't know if that's why I view this differently, but I do think it's a mistake to hold against Doc and Straw their weaknesses. In an ideal world, they would have taken full advantage of their God given talents and become all-world players, Hall of Famers, but unfortunately it didn't work out for them, and even more unfortunate that they have failed to live happy, healthy lives because of their demons. I guess I just look at Dwight Gooden as a man who had a problem that unfortunately, brought great pain to his life. It’s unfortunate, but it’s beyond my control; everything that these guys do is beyond my control, obviously. There was a weakness inside of him that kept him from being able to live a sober life, and I find that more unfortunate than anything.

Should we hold it against Davey Johnson and Mel Stottlemyre for overusing him? Should we fail to “forgive” them for blowing out his arm, which prevented the Mets from benefiting from his talents for a longer period of time? They made mistakes handling Doc, much as Doc made his own problems, and ultimately, the end result was a career that never quite reached its promise, but I don’t think that erases the great things he did, either, and as we grow older, I just don’t see the need to hold onto negativity. It seems counterproductive to me.

I’ve known people who suffer from addictions. I’ve been close to them. It really is a disease. I don’t know if that’s why I view this differently, but I do think it’s a mistake to hold against Doc and Straw their weaknesses. In an ideal world, they would have taken full advantage of their God given talents and become all-world players, Hall of Famers, but unfortunately it didn’t work out for them, and even more unfortunate that they have failed to live happy, healthy lives because of their demons.

]]> By: Joeadig http://www.blueandorange.net/?p=682&cpage=1#comment-485705 Joeadig Thu, 23 Apr 2009 02:16:46 +0000 http://www.blueandorange.net/?p=682#comment-485705 You both seem to be forgetting a fundamental truth here: Dwight Gooden is not our friend. He's an EMPLOYEE (or a former employee) of the team that I root for. He disrespected my team by disrespecting himself and his own talent. To him, it was obviously just a job. If he cared more, he would have fought harder and been more concerned with his career than his drugs. If he were my friend, I would help him, I would fight for him, and I would forgive him. But he's not my friend. As someone who pays a good deal of money to support a team, i expect the members of that team to --at the very least-- respect that team. He did not do that, not in any sense, and so I cannot forgive him. Mike and Mike argue a lot about who cares more: the fan or the player. It's an interesting argument and I can definitely see both their points. I think that's what we have here. I seem to think that I care more than Doc did. Maybe I'm wrong, but I've never seen him convince me otherwise. You both seem to be forgetting a fundamental truth here: Dwight Gooden is not our friend. He’s an EMPLOYEE (or a former employee) of the team that I root for. He disrespected my team by disrespecting himself and his own talent. To him, it was obviously just a job. If he cared more, he would have fought harder and been more concerned with his career than his drugs. If he were my friend, I would help him, I would fight for him, and I would forgive him. But he’s not my friend. As someone who pays a good deal of money to support a team, i expect the members of that team to –at the very least– respect that team. He did not do that, not in any sense, and so I cannot forgive him.

Mike and Mike argue a lot about who cares more: the fan or the player. It’s an interesting argument and I can definitely see both their points. I think that’s what we have here. I seem to think that I care more than Doc did. Maybe I’m wrong, but I’ve never seen him convince me otherwise.

]]> By: tjv101 http://www.blueandorange.net/?p=682&cpage=1#comment-485704 tjv101 Wed, 22 Apr 2009 19:30:35 +0000 http://www.blueandorange.net/?p=682#comment-485704 Listen, let's be honest here. The whole reason this whole Doc Gooden thing has come to light is because the Wilpons listen to talk radio and Met fans aren't all that happy that there is very little Mets decor at their brand new ballpark. Sure, outside the stadium there is the Mets fanwalk with many fans buying bricks and sharing memories outside adorning the Citi Field main entrance. Sure, there are banners outside the stadium adorning past Met greats but that's really it. The Jackie Robinson Rotunda is clearly a reminder of Jeff Wilpon's love for his childhood hero Jackie Robinson and Ebbetts Field. So now that Met fans have complained (and when don't we really not complain) about the lack of Mets items, why not celebrate the bigger of the 2 Mets world series championships by giving Gooden a piece of the wall at Citi Field to sign and cherish since he was such a huge part of that storied Mets team in 86. Now for my response to your point/counterpoint. First, now that I see Gooden's numbers with the Mets, it really hits me how good this guy was and the lost potential he had. He was already suffering in 1986 with his cocaine problem. If he was on the straight and narrow like so many ballplayers are and have been, he might very well have gone down as the greatest Mets pitcher of all time (sorry Tom Terrific). I understand Joe's point for not being able to forgive Doc (and Straw) for that matter. We all know if he was able to keep clean, what could have been of his once-promising career? Could it have been another World Series championship? A Cy Young award? A hall of fame career? We don't know because he screwed it up. We all do have to forgive and forget at some point in our lives Joe. This team has faced incredible adversity and problems since their inception, so why not then (and certainly the last few years for that matter). I am ok with forgiving Doc. He seems to have gotten past his demons and knows that he threw away a good part of his career. As a Met fan, I think it is only fair to welcome back Doc in our lives since it is him that we remember cheering as little boys. We can't hold grudges forever especially if someone is truly sorry for their mistakes. Good article Listen, let’s be honest here. The whole reason this whole Doc Gooden thing has come to light is because the Wilpons listen to talk radio and Met fans aren’t all that happy that there is very little Mets decor at their brand new ballpark. Sure, outside the stadium there is the Mets fanwalk with many fans buying bricks and sharing memories outside adorning the Citi Field main entrance. Sure, there are banners outside the stadium adorning past Met greats but that’s really it. The Jackie Robinson Rotunda is clearly a reminder of Jeff Wilpon’s love for his childhood hero Jackie Robinson and Ebbetts Field. So now that Met fans have complained (and when don’t we really not complain) about the lack of Mets items, why not celebrate the bigger of the 2 Mets world series championships by giving Gooden a piece of the wall at Citi Field to sign and cherish since he was such a huge part of that storied Mets team in 86.

Now for my response to your point/counterpoint. First, now that I see Gooden’s numbers with the Mets, it really hits me how good this guy was and the lost potential he had. He was already suffering in 1986 with his cocaine problem. If he was on the straight and narrow like so many ballplayers are and have been, he might very well have gone down as the greatest Mets pitcher of all time (sorry Tom Terrific). I understand Joe’s point for not being able to forgive Doc (and Straw) for that matter. We all know if he was able to keep clean, what could have been of his once-promising career? Could it have been another World Series championship? A Cy Young award? A hall of fame career? We don’t know because he screwed it up. We all do have to forgive and forget at some point in our lives Joe. This team has faced incredible adversity and problems since their inception, so why not then (and certainly the last few years for that matter). I am ok with forgiving Doc. He seems to have gotten past his demons and knows that he threw away a good part of his career. As a Met fan, I think it is only fair to welcome back Doc in our lives since it is him that we remember cheering as little boys. We can’t hold grudges forever especially if someone is truly sorry for their mistakes. Good article

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